tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8331841.post112671094593250966..comments2023-12-28T01:28:36.790-08:00Comments on Murky Thoughts: For Constitution DayMThttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02341704109256270557noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8331841.post-1127745955542631682005-09-26T07:45:00.000-07:002005-09-26T07:45:00.000-07:00...where by "that clause" I mean " "which shall be......where by "that clause" I mean " <BR/><BR/>"which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons"<BR/><BR/>Now I see how Clinton got into trouble.MThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02341704109256270557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8331841.post-1127745871581343682005-09-26T07:44:00.000-07:002005-09-26T07:44:00.000-07:00Just to be explicit, I isolated that clause becaus...Just to be explicit, I isolated that clause because it makes no sense if we read "Number" to reference the representatives, so I consider it proof that that would be a misreadingMThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02341704109256270557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8331841.post-1127745595138423792005-09-26T07:39:00.000-07:002005-09-26T07:39:00.000-07:00"which shall be determined by adding to the whole ..."which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons"<BR/><BR/>Nope, "Number" does not represent the representatives. The Number in the state is that from which you calculate how many reps that state gets in the federal capital.MThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02341704109256270557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8331841.post-1127743777041864382005-09-26T07:09:00.000-07:002005-09-26T07:09:00.000-07:00No, "not numbers of what? People!" Numbers of re...No, "not numbers of what? People!" Numbers of representatives who, as we see, can barely be people at all!<BR/><BR/>That doesn't mean we give the Constitution a medal. It failed to address the issue of slavery, in fact essentially preserved it, and had many defects which, as you note, the Bill of Rights and subsequent amendments cured. But you don't need to oversell the point and misrepresent what Art. I, Clause 3 meant. It was simply a way to ensure that slaves, who as you know were disenfranchised "chattel," would not result in a gross overcount of population in the Southern States and thereby give them what you must agree would be a <I>very</I> undeserved advantage in the House of Representatives and the Electoral College -- which would not have done the slaves any good at all (far from it, right?).<BR/><BR/>And, incidentally, this clause does not say a thing about "African Americans," does it? Slaves are, of course, the "other persons." There is no racial component to "other persons," i.e., other than "free persons." As you know, many slaves were equally white, or even more white, than they were black. And black citizens of any state would not have been affected by Art. I, Cl. 3 at all!<BR/><BR/>See you on the other side...Ron Colemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08971795311919587950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8331841.post-1126735055537011942005-09-14T14:57:00.000-07:002005-09-14T14:57:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Rob Helpy-Chalkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13814390262154687969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8331841.post-1126715211771664832005-09-14T09:26:00.000-07:002005-09-14T09:26:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8331841.post-1127706921836132472005-09-25T20:55:00.000-07:002005-09-25T20:55:00.000-07:00Article I, Clause 3 says:"Representatives and dire...Article I, Clause 3 says:<BR/>"Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States...according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons...and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons."<BR/><BR/>So African Americans each counted only three fifths toward a state's "Numbers." Numbers of what? People! For the purposes of political representation in the thus constituted government by and for the people, we're to count each voting white man, his wife and all of his children as one member apiece of the people, but we reckon his slaves at three fifths.MThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02341704109256270557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8331841.post-1127698822210193102005-09-25T18:40:00.000-07:002005-09-25T18:40:00.000-07:00The Constitution never "declared," decreed or enac...The Constitution never "declared," decreed or enacted African Americans, blacks or even slaves to be three-fifths of a person.Ron Colemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08971795311919587950noreply@blogger.com